Curse

Covah · Jun 23, 2008, 11:08 PM // 23:08

If you FPS is around 30-50 fps you are fine. lower then 20 is bad. Anything about 60 your eyes can't see a difference.

FlareStorm · Jun 23, 2008, 11:11 PM // 23:11

hm, how come -perfs isnt showing anything, am I missing something?

What I am not agreeing with is if its showing 300fps, that doesn't mean there are actually 300 frames in that second. Its only like 30 or something. Anything above that doesn't matter.

fusa · Jun 23, 2008, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by firestorm

What I am not agreeing with is if its showing 300fps, that doesn't mean there are actually 300 frames in that second. Its only like 30 or something. Anything above that doesn't matter.

If its reporting 300 fps, you're getting 300 fps. Your brain isn't registering much above 30 fps, and your monitor is having problems at around 60-85 fps.

-perf shows fps. Also green/yellow/orange/red dot will show fps, server ip and ping.

FlareStorm · Jun 23, 2008, 11:28 PM // 23:28

no it isnt. If your character does an animation that takes 1 second, there aren't 300 separate frames in there.

fusa · Jun 23, 2008, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Whatever you mean by your character doing 1 animation being 1 frame per second has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to to with fps. If there is ZERO movement of anything on the screen the video card is STILL rendering the image and most likely the FPS is very high.

Rahja edit: Again, no more personal attacks.

FlareStorm · Jun 23, 2008, 11:46 PM // 23:46

whoah calm down.

I didn't say "1 animation being 1 frame per second" I said an animation that takes 1 second has a max of 30 frames or so. Anything above is superfluous.

What I was saying, to the OT, is that there is a point (around 30 I'm using for arguments sake, I suspect its much lower) in a game like GW that is a threshold. Trying to get above that isn't going to make the game any crisper

Merios · Jun 24, 2008, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Okay, since this is on topic, maybe someone can inform me why I'm getting an average of 8-11 FPS, going to 18 in places where there are no people?

(Also, I bought my computer late 2007- It's an E-Machine. I know, bad choice, but I've been strapped for cash and it was only $470.00 with an employee discount.)

Quote:

------------------
System Information
------------------
Machine name: **************-PC
Operating System: Windows Vista™ Home Premium (6.0, Build 6000)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: Gateway
System Model: *****
BIOS: )Phoenix - Award WorkstationBIOS v6.00PG
Processor: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3800+, ~2.4GHz
Memory: 894MB RAM
Page File: 884MB used, 1164MB available
Windows Dir: C:\Windows
DirectX Version: DirectX 10
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
DxDiag Version: 6.00.6000.16386 32bit Unicode

---------------
Display Devices
---------------
Card name: NVIDIA GeForce 6100 nForce 405
Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Chip type: GeForce 6100 nForce 405
DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
Display Memory: 313 MB
Dedicated Memory: 122 MB
Shared Memory: 191 MB
Current Mode: 1280 x 1024 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Monitor: Generic PnP Monitor

fusa · Jun 24, 2008, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlareStorm

I said an animation that takes 1 second has a max of 30 frames or so. Anything above is superfluous.

If a video card is rendering 300 fps that means it is rendering 300 FRAMES PER SECOND. Guild Wars DOES NOT max this at 25 or 30 fps unless you start it with -fps 30 or you have a lower performing computer. If your computer is maxing at 25-30 fps, its because your computer is slow NOT your network connection, NOT Guild Wars.

Rahja edit: Let's keep the personal attacks tuned off kk?

fusa · Jun 24, 2008, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merios

Memory: 894MB RAM
Chip type: GeForce 6100 nForce 405

Since you are using Directx 10, you must have vista. Vista is a huge memory user, so getting another gb of memory would help. Also your video card is old. You might want to consider downgrading to XP since you can lower the memory use of the os but a lot. Also you'll get no benefit from Vista with an old card like this, since it doesn't support directx 10.

Stephen John · Jun 24, 2008, 12:47 AM // 00:47

lol i actually sometimes run between 8-30 and even when its 8 i run good i have a real old comp that cant even handle windows service pack 2 for xp lol ^_^ but it run fine with mine between 8-16 and when its 20+ i feel spoiled

Covah · Jun 24, 2008, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlareStorm

hm, how come -perfs isnt showing anything, am I missing something?

cuz its -perf

FlareStorm · Jun 24, 2008, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merios

8-11 FPS, going to 18 in places where there are no people?

Its going to jump when there is less to show on the screen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merios

Display Memory: 313 MB
Dedicated Memory: 122 MB
Shared Memory: 191 MB

Laptop? Your video card is sharing with the system memory, which is a common way companies advertise memory.

Your best bet is to shut down everything, as in anti-virus and all, and run it. If you are having chppiness issues, that is. If not, don't worry about it.

Rahja Edit: I removed his comment, so I removed your reference to it.

Lord Sojar · Jun 24, 2008, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Ok, this is getting testy. Fusa, cool your jets please. Flare, you might be a bit confused on the exact meaning of Frames Per Second. A frame is a full render of all aspects of a graphical image.

This includes but is not limited to:

Textures
Polygons
Sprites
Texture Overlays
Active lighting and HDR/Bloom or both.
Rasterisation or Monte Carlo effects including Ray systems.

Once all things are created on the screen, that is a full frame. Frames per second are dependent on a many parts of the computer:

The GPU (Graphics processing Unit, in laymans terms, the graphics card)
Available memory, speed of said memory, latency of said memory, and control protocol for said memory (intergrated vs off chip)

CPU (Central Processing Unit) This is the brain of the computer. It does a lot of the physics processing and engine processing on games. This is beginning to change, but is still generally true. If coded, a CPU can also assist in ray tracing or ray casting.

Motherboard; The speed at which the control processors on the motherboard communicate with each part of the PC, and connect the 2 parts together is very important. High end motherboards are typically more stable and have better technology with more power efficient designs.

The PSU (Powe Supply Unit): This is the power plant of the PC. It uses a rail system, in which each rail is a different voltage. If the wattage output is too low, the parts in the PC will not perform optimally or at all. If the rails are running at too high or low a voltage, this can cause instability, thus lowering FPS.

Many other aspects affect games FPS levels, but 25+ is generally regarded as decent. Hope this helps.

fusa · Jun 24, 2008, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlareStorm

Laptop? Your video card is sharing with the system memory, which is a common way companies advertise memory.

Your best bet is to shut down everything, as in anti-virus and all, and run it. If you are having chppiness issues, that is. If not, don't worry about it.

E-machines are desktops, not laptops. 8-11 ftp is choppy, so it's not something to not worry about. What you quoted from the post is NOT how companies advertise memory. His video card has about 122 mb of memory, vista is allocating 192 from the system memory for a total of 313mb used for video memory.

Rahja edit: Again, with the personal attacks. Totally unnecessary. Removed.

Lord Sojar · Jun 24, 2008, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Oh, and to give you a concept of how many FPS you want.

The human can see the disturbance in 30FPS or under.

At 30+ FPS, the movement becomes more fluid with less blur and motion delay..

At 60+ FPS, the eye begins to rapidly lose the ability to tell the diference in reality and screen (regarding fluid motion)

90 FPS is seen as the "cap" of the human eye. The instant it goes over 90, your eye "can't see" the difference because the optic nerve can't send sgnals faster.

FlareStorm · Jun 24, 2008, 07:25 AM // 07:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

90 FPS is seen as the "cap" of the human eye. The instant it goes over 90, your eye "can't see" the difference because the optic nerve can't send sgnals faster.

Where do you get that? I'm not trying to be a jerk and argue for the sake of it, btw

From what I have read, the human eye sees 30 fps. That's why video is recorded at that rate, it looks "natural"

Lord Sojar · Jun 24, 2008, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlareStorm

Where do you get that? I'm not trying to be a jerk and argue for the sake of it, btw

From what I have read, the human eye sees 30 fps. That's why video is recorded at that rate, it looks "natural"

Now, I might not have my PHD in biology or medicine, but I do know enough about human anatomy to explain this, and with a PHD in physics, I think I can do the heavy lifting from that end.

The human eye reacts to multiple inputs. Light is one of the most important. If the Candela level undergoes a rapid change, the pupil contracts very quickly (Flashbang grenades work on this premise). This causes the eye to see an after image, which might be seen as a "lag" to the eye, despite it being the pupil taking time to dilate back to standard Candela levels.

When an image leaves the screen, it emits photons, being light. The photons hit the eye, and the processes those photons into electrical impulses via retina. As the image is processes, it is sent via the optic nerve right?

The eye can process an image from photon collision as short as 1/200th of a second, allowing the brain to recognize the image and identify to some degree what that image was. In our labs, the silicon wafer design process uses argon lasers through reverse refraction. I can see the flashing of the laser smoothly, being in 1/500th of a second bursts. So in other words, I can see 500 FPS, to some degree.

Considering our brains are organic processors (neurons can switch many "commands" a "cycle" allowing us to take in multiple things at one time and do multiple things at one point in time. Because of this, the brain can take in an image on an image. That is, if an image has just been seen, the brain can process the next 6 images as that first image is being processed. When there are not enough images, our brain sees this as tearing, line draws down the screen, jitters, erratic, or jumpy imagery.

The human brain can process up to 200-220 FPS and still understand the image. However, at some point, the need to process such images becomes pointless. Thus, the value of 90-100 FPS was given as the "maximum" the human eye can take in. We can visually see more then you might think.

Yes film is recorded at 18-24 FPS, and that appears fluid because of motion blur. Newer games are introducing motion blur, which makes them appear more fluid to the eye despite lower FPS (TF2 is a good example, it looks great even at 20FPS) However, most games lack dynamic movie blur that mimics cinema. Without this blur, the picture seems almost artificial. Why? The eye is seeing that as unnatural because of the lack of blur. The eye takes snapshots, and the blur appears natural in a snap shop because of motion reaction, not a frame. When you quickly move your hand in front of your eyes, it doesn't appear blurred because it is moving at too many frames per second (because it doesn't have an FPS rating), it appears blurred because the photons reaching yours eyes are reaching in erratic patterns, thus you perceive that as an after image.

Does that make sense? The human eye can perceive 90-120 FPS as natural motion on a PC screen, because the sense of blur is added at that level. 60 FPS seems natural because it starts to become skewed. However, go look at a 60Hz and 120Hz HDTV side by side with fast motion photography. You will quickly see the difference.

Dark Kal · Jun 24, 2008, 08:35 AM // 08:35

If a game says its running 300 FPS it means:

-Your graphic card is rendering 300 FPS
-Your monitor only display as many FPS as it refresh rate (e.g. a 60Hz can only display a maximum of 60 FPS) it disregards the rest of the frames.
-Since video games don't have motion blur your eye will percieve 60 FPS.

Movies and television programs are percieved by the eye as fluid motion at around 24 FPS because of motion blur. This is not an upper limit or maximum. Since video games don't have motion blur a higher framerate is more desireable. The upper limit or maximum FPS for the human eye is subjective to what it's seeing. Somewhere around less than 100 FPS (I'm not certain about the exact number since it's somewhat subjective) is the human eye's cap for percieving images like those displayed by a computer game.

Lord Sojar · Jun 24, 2008, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Kal

If a game says its running 300 FPS it means:

-Your graphic card is rendering 300 FPS
-Your monitor only display as many FPS as it refresh rate (e.g. a 60Hz can only display a maximum of 60 FPS) it disregards the rest of the frames.
-Since video games don't have motion blur your eye will percieve 60 FPS.

Movies and television programs are percieved by the eye as fluid motion at around 24 FPS because of motion blur. This is not an upper limit or maximum. Since video games don't have motion blur a higher framerate is more desireable. The upper limit or maximum FPS for the human eye is subjective to what it's seeing. Somewhere around less than 100 FPS (I'm not certain about the exact number since it's somewhat subjective) is the human eye's cap for percieving images like those displayed by a computer game.

Shortened version of what I said. It's like Cliff Notes!

Read this ^.

Oh, except the monitor bit is a bit off, but I will let it slide for the sake of simplicity.

Dark Kal · Jun 24, 2008, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Yes, I simplified the monitor part just to keep it simple basically

. That information isn't completely accurate for a more indepth explanation. Also I was writting my post before you wrote your lenghty post (which kinda made the second part of my post obsolete, but oh well). Since I'm at work I'm writting pretty slow.

<3 at House